by Don Pelton

For many years — during my young adulthood through middle age — I followed and admired the work of poet Robert Bly, his poetry and his work with what we hopefully called “the mens’ movement.” When I was still a young father in the 1970s I attended a weekend workshop Bly led at the Jung Institute in San Francisco, and some years later I spent a week at a Men’s Gathering in the woods of Mendocino, led by a couple of his close colleagues in the men’s work, psychologist James Hillman and mythologist and storyteller Michael Meade.

Recently I read somewhere that near the end of his life Bly made a comment to the effect that as he grew older he learned “how to use grief productively.” As someone who is both nearer to the end of his life than to the beginning and also seems to have a rapidly growing tendency to grieve at the mildest of provocations, I was fascinated by the possibility of using grief, rather than being ashamed of it. I can see how it could be the raw material for the poet, but I’m no poet, despite having made some attempts at it decades ago.

And since I’ve been making much use lately of the AI program ChatGPT, I decided to ask it this question: “When Robert Bly said in his old age that he learned how to make use of grief, what did he mean?”

I’m reprinting here (below) ChatGPT’s answer in full because its accuracy and — what appears to be its sensitivity (? !!!)  — amazed me. It’s not really aware, much less alive. And it is now infamous for “hallucinating” (or what at least one academic paper seriously referred to in its title as conveying “bullshit”).

ChatGPT is right about Bly’s interest in and use of Jungian ideas, an interest Bly inspired in me as well. And Bly’s honoring of Rilke, and Bly’s interest in “soul-making.” Also notice at the end of ChatGPT’s exposition, when I agreed to let it (I almost wrote “he”) write a poem in Bly’s “voice,” it churned out an interesintg poem, with at least one amazing line (I’ll let you decide which one it is) that floored me with its power.

What the hell is going on? I suppose its real genius is in “textual analysis.” Text, after all, is what it has been fed, copiously and extravagantly.

Here’s ChatGPT’s exposition on Bly’s use of grief:

“When Robert Bly said that in his old age he learned how to make use of grief, he was speaking from the vantage point of a poet and seeker who had spent a lifetime exploring the deeper layers of the psyche. For Bly, grief was not merely something to be endured or escaped—it was a form of inner energy, a profound emotion that could open the heart and deepen the soul.

“To make use of grief, in Bly’s context, likely meant:

1. Accepting it as a teacher: Bly often wrote that grief brings us into contact with what is most real and vulnerable in us. In older age, he recognized grief not just as pain, but as a guide that strips away illusions and brings clarity.

2. Transforming sorrow into art or insight: As a poet, Bly frequently turned personal and collective sorrow into poetry, mythic reflection, and spiritual commentary. Making use of grief involved crafting something meaningful from it.

3. Letting grief mature the soul: Bly was influenced by Jungian psychology and myth. He believed that grief could help us move from a more superficial or ego-centered life to a deeper, more soulful way of being. In old age, he saw that grief had a role in softening the defenses of the self and bringing compassion.

4. Participating in the full human experience: Bly didn’t want to bypass sorrow, as modern culture often does. To use grief meant to honor it, to give it a place at the table, and in doing so, become more whole.

“Would you like a few lines of his poetry that express this idea directly?”

You said: Yes

ChatGPT said:

“Here are a few lines from Robert Bly that speak to grief and its deeper purpose:

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From “The Night Abraham Called to the Stars”:

“It is grief that makes the voice so full and trembling.”

This line shows how grief gives emotional depth and resonance to expression—grief enriches the voice, rather than diminishing it.

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From “What the Old Poets Failed to Say”:

“The wild waste sadness of youth, / that is what the old poets failed to say. / That longing is not for a woman or a man, / but for our own growth.”

Here, Bly reframes sadness and longing as essential parts of personal and spiritual maturation—grief is a signal that we’re being stretched into something deeper.

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From “Grief”:

“Grief is a gust that ends the calm / Of a soldier or a farmer. / Grief shatters what it touches, / Yet within it is hidden energy.”

“This brief poem presents grief as a disruptive but essential force—a necessary storm that also carries power and transformation.

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“These lines suggest that in old age, Bly came to see grief not just as suffering, but as a creative and spiritual force—capable of deepening one’s inner life.

“Would you like a few more, or a reflection on how Bly’s views compare with other poets or thinkers on grief?”

You said: Yes

ChatGPT said:

“Robert Bly’s understanding of grief—as transformative, instructive, and necessary—places him in a lineage of poets and thinkers who saw sorrow not as a weakness, but as a profound teacher. Here are a few comparisons that illuminate how his view fits into a broader tradition:

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1. Rainer Maria Rilke

“Bly admired and translated Rilke, whose Letters to a Young Poet includes this line:

“Perhaps everything terrible is in its deepest being something that needs our love.”

“Like Bly, Rilke saw grief and difficulty as invitations to growth. Both believed we must not resist sorrow but “live the questions,” trusting that pain has purpose in the unfolding of the self.

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2. Carl Jung

“Bly drew heavily from Jungian psychology. Jung emphasized the shadow—the parts of ourselves we repress, including grief—and claimed:

“One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious.”

“Bly, especially in Iron John, developed the idea that men in particular must descend into their own grief, shame, and sorrow to be made whole. He viewed grief as shadow-work: essential for integration.

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3. Kahlil Gibran (The Prophet)

“Your joy is your sorrow unmasked… The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.”

“This echoes Bly’s idea that grief is not opposed to life’s richness but a channel to it. Sorrow is not just endured—it expands us.

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4. Mary Oliver

“In poems like “Heavy,” she writes:

“It’s not the weight you carry / but how you carry it.”

“Oliver, like Bly, turns to grief not to escape it but to learn how to live with it, make something of it, even transform it into beauty.

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“In summary:

“Bly learned late in life to “make use of grief” the way a craftsman might shape rough wood—grief, once resisted, becomes material for soul-making. He joined a long tradition of mystics, poets, and psychologists who viewed sorrow as a doorway rather than a dead end.

“Would you like a short original poem in Bly’s voice, centered on this idea?

You said: Yes

ChatGPT said: